Are you ready to be a REAL Math teacher?

Gershom Aitchison, host · [03:14]So one of the things that makes Edu Inc a little bit different is we talk about the concept of entrepreneurial employees, kind of carving your own path, as it were, at Edu Inc. Julian, you've been with us, I think it's almost five years by the end of this year.

Julian Mudliar, guest · [03:30]Yeah, about four and a half years, yeah.

Gershom Aitchison, host · [03:32]And you came from the big, I think you came from a big government school before you joined us. That's correct. Do you want to talk a little bit about your path and what, what you've carved out for you and what your, what you've done in those four and a half years at Edu Inc?

Julian Mudliar, guest · [03:45]so I always thought it was important that for my own practice, I felt like I didn't really know the research that was out there in maths education. Because of the small class size, I actually got to experiment and employ the findings from research into my actual classroom practice and actually try and think, how can I make maths more enjoyable, more relevant for my children? And I also think, it also helped that over the four and a half years that I collaborated with a Wits professor where we developed COVID-19 tasks and actually implemented them in the classroom, and the kids really enjoyed that.

Julian Mudliar, guest · [04:55]Yeah, I feel that if you have the textbook open, you're just going to rely on the textbook and read from the textbook, but if you created the notes yourself, you already created the examples, and it's more spontaneous in the moment you can actually develop your own examples in that space of time, and it's more interactive with the learner than if you're just reading from a textbook or do examples straight from the textbook.

Gershom Aitchison, host · [05:16]I think also that it makes it more relevant to the students. You can read, it becomes more topical. If you know that something is topical out there that they are having access to at the moment, you can incorporate it into your examples. it can be quite intimidating for teachers when we ask them at their interviews, do you need a textbook to teach? The ones that say yes, we start questioning the content knowledge and their confidence in the classroom. We asked you that question two years ago, Lauren, what are your thoughts on that?

Lauren Snow, guest · [05:43]I was honestly quite relieved that I didn't have to rely on a textbook because without the textbook, you're allowed to be creative and will often have students coming up with examples in the classroom and, it gets them engaged. So when I've got eight kids in a class who despise math, to be honest, getting them to shout out numbers and be part of the learning process helps them make a connection to the subject that they might not want to be a part of.

Gershom Aitchison, host · [06:22]Yeah. So it seems that one of the skills that is essential to be an educating teacher is making the teaching relevant to the students. And being quite flexible in what is going to allow them to engage while sticking to the core principles of teaching.

Gershom Aitchison, host · [10:07]So this is a rabbit hole that I want to just jump in very quickly, maybe just ankle deep, and just ask, are one would equate more experience in the classroom With teachers being more comfortable to go slightly off topic and make it relevant and engaging for the learners, whereas less experienced or less knowledgeable teachers would be quick to jump back into what they know and are comfortable with. You know, for me, teaching's always about being an elastic band. Sometimes you need to stretch it and give yourself more time, and then sometimes you let it go. So what are your findings so far in that space? What are your thoughts on that? So

Julian Mudliar, guest · [10:40]I've actually done research with novice teachers, so they don't really like to deviate from topic. but more experienced teachers, they are more willing, if there's something that's unexpected, to actually explore that in their lesson. But that's not... I don't want to generalize, because there are some novice teachers who started who are very eager to work with the learner contributions in the classroom. But I think it happens more with time and experience.

Lauren Snow, guest · [11:04]I think it also speaks to the edging process. technically, I am still a novice teacher, but I'm very willing to engage with the learners. It's Almost a byproduct of the Edu Inc setup, and there's no way around it. You've also, it speaks to the confidence of the teacher. If you're confident in your knowledge, you're more willing to be that elastic band and stretch and snap, whereas I think teachers that are more rigid in their Thought process or what they've learned are, they, they don't want to stretch and snap because they might be under-mined.

Julian Mudliar, guest · [11:47]That's true. I also think the small class size makes it easier that you can actually deal with these unexpected learner contributions. Because when I worked at a government school, I was teaching like thirty-five learners, and it's very hard in that you've got like forty minutes per lesson, if something unexpected comes to actually explore an, unexpected maths concept.

Gershom Aitchison, host · [12:19]I think also just to create some context to your comments about, I'm an, I'm still technically a novice teacher. I think not all novice teachers are created equal. You know, two years at Edu Inc has certainly thrown you in the deep end, and you have a lot more experience over two years than some teachers have been teaching for ten years. and I know that you've You know, through your PGCE and meeting other teachers and that, you know people that whose trajectory is a little bit different to yours. So do you want to share what that's been like for you?

Lauren Snow, guest · [12:47]It's quite odd. I have been in contact with various teachers who started teaching in relatively similar positions at the same time as me, and the amount of growth that I've experienced in comparison to them is astounding. I, I can't really have many conversations about my career with them because they're so far behind. It, I feel, I feel sorry for them. Whenever someone talks to me about, oh, wouldn't you want to leave? Wouldn't you want to come work with me in this school, that school? Absolutely not.

Gershom Aitchison, host · [13:28]So what has been that professional development? You know, on our, on our recruitment, process, one of the things that we list is Honors and recognition as part of the rewards for teaching, but more importantly, extensive personal and professional growth. Would you concur with that? Would you agree with what that statement?

Lauren Snow, guest · [13:45]A hundred percent. Well, you're kind of the HOD of your own subject at Edu Inc, and with that comes a lot of responsibility, and you, you get it done. that in itself makes you grow. Other than that, we've got our hybrid setup that we execute very well.

Gershom Aitchison, host · [14:08]One of the other things that I always say to the teachers is, you know, first year teaching at Edu Inc is tough because you own HOD, you, you don't have a department to rely on, but you certainly have your colleagues to rely on, and moderation is an important part of that. You know, internally, you know, you've got Julian moderating you and vice versa because you have the skills. You've also created a network of teachers in other private schools that are at the same standard that you're at. And more important, you have direct access to the, the subject specialists in that subject with the IEB that you can have a conversation with.

Lauren Snow, guest · [14:37]The communication within the Edu Inc staff is absolutely brilliant, and there's a great support structure here. And then also with the collaboration that we can have within the IEB, there's no way for you to go wrong. There, everywhere you turn, there's support and, opportunities for growth.

Gershom Aitchison, host · [14:59]Julian, your thoughts, it's been, you know, Lauren's been doing this for two years at Edu Inc, you four and a half years in, would you, what would, what would your feeling be on the professional development within the Edu Inc community outside of your studies and things like that?

Julian Mudliar, guest · [15:11]I think they, so as staff, you have like around two thousand rand under the budget each year, so you can choose what courses to do, and if you teach back the course to the staff through the Crossfire Nation, you get half the money back. so yeah, I think there is quite a bit of room for professional development at Edu Inc.

Lauren Snow, guest · [24:37]So within math, we break every single problem up into a specific cognitive level. We discuss these with the students throughout the teaching process, from when we introduce the topic all the way through to assessment. Those cognitive levels are broken up into four stages. The first is your knowledge. That's just definitions, parrot learn it, and that's it.

Gershom Aitchison, host · [25:05]Formulas and things like

Lauren Snow, guest · [25:06]that. Then you've got your routine procedures. Those are things you've routinely seen you can do, those are just skills-based.

Gershom Aitchison, host · [25:13]So where does times tables fall into that?

Lauren Snow, guest · [25:15]That would be knowledge. it also depends on what grade level you're at, but at the grade nine level, it's definitely knowledge. then we've got, so we've got the knowledge, routine procedures, then we've got your complex or multiple step procedures. So that's anything that takes a few steps to do, anything that we manipulate the wording to make it more complex, and then finally we have your explanation, your analysis, and that's really getting into the nitty gritty of why and explain and analyze.

Gershom Aitchison, host · [25:52]So that, that's the maths question that they walk out of the metric maths paper going, sure, that pap, that, that question was unsolvable, and we've never seen something like that before, and we were never taught that. Do you want to add to that, Julian?

Julian Mudliar, guest · [26:03]Yeah, Lauren summed it up quite nicely. So yeah, she talks about knowledge routine complex. Yeah, and problem solving is something that's unseen in a way. It's an unpredictable type of question, but you have to integrate across different strands. Like I know in the paper one IAB question, you have to work backwards from a parabola to a cubic function. So that requires quite a bit of brain work to do that, but it's something a bit unpredictable, because they haven't

Gershom Aitchison, host · [26:30]asked that a lot. And, and that's the high order thinking that the kids...

Julian Mudliar, guest · [26:34]Yeah, so especially the complex and problem solving, about fifty percent, yeah, it's always a higher order than in, the knowledge and routine that Lauren was say, saying, like solve for X. That's something that you teach them in a class, you reproduce the procedure.

Gershom Aitchison, host · [29:38]So like most things Edu Inc, it's quite an unusual application process for teachers, and essentially looking for three things. The first is your CV, so we know what your qualifications are. The second thing is your SAIT certificate, so we know that you're allowed to teach and are qualified to teach. And the third thing we ask for is a video of yourself teaching. And I thought it might be useful to just share a little bit about what the most important of those three things is, in your opinion.

Lauren Snow, guest · [30:07]It's definitely the video. We want to see you in the teaching environment, whether that be you teaching your, a class, or you teaching a group of teenagers.

Julian Mudliar, guest · [30:18]Yeah. But the thing with the video, though, it is tough because you don't have learners in real time where they're asking you questions or something's unexpected. So the video is quite good. You get a sense of how the teacher's going to teach, whether they're a traditional, type of teacher or they're, they're going to use routine questions. But I think because it's not in real time, it's a bit difficult, not really interactive. Sure.

Gershom Aitchison, host · [30:44]Well, it, it speaks to the hidden curriculum there, and I think part of that is Edu Inc is a very tech school, and even if you don't have a teaching video and you end up putting your cell phone on a tripod and you're teaching a concept to your teddies or your neighbor's kids, it's a great way to see that you understand how to actually digitize some of the analog process, which is very important, and make it accessible for the learners. But it also is a little bit about problem solving, too. It's a basic instruction, and one of our biggest frustrations at the moment is How many people do not send that video, and it's probably the most important part of, of the process. And then the second unique thing is, you know, once, Jax and myself as the heads of the school have met you, because we like what we've seen, we then hand you over to a panel, of teachers, because a lot of schools don't do that, but essentially it doesn't matter if the bosses like them, you're the guys that have to work with them. And perhaps just share a little bit about You've, you guys have been on the panels, even though you haven't, you know, in your words, you're a novice, which you're not. You have been, on a few panels, and Julian certainly seems to have been on every single one of them. They find him the most scary on the panels, but just share about why that's such an important part of the, of the process too.

Julian Mudliar, guest · [31:58]I think it's to find out whether you're the right fit, for Edu Inc, whether you're going to fit the culture, and we can probe you a little more to find out, if, are you willing to put in the effort, to stay every afternoon. So like for maths, there are quite a few learners that struggle. Are you willing to put in the effort to help the learners if they're not understanding a maths concept? Yeah. So we just need, we also want to get an idea, do you have that grit, what it takes to be, a maths educator? It's not easy teaching mathematics. There's so many things happening in the classroom. you might get unexpected questions and to think on your feet.